Line Between Fantasy and Deviant Perversion?

I sometimes write posts on this blog about Porn I Like and Porn I Dislike (not to mention Porn I’m Indifferent To). When I write about porn I dislike I usually include the following introduction:

There are definitely types of porn that I do not like – that I dislike. One could even go so far as to say that I hate some types of porn. If I ever have any blog readers there may well be disagreements; porn which they love and have a fetish for but that I think is gross or sick or disgusting. They may think the same thing about porn that I like. All I can say to that is: I’m right, you’re wrong, get over it.

That last sentence is the most important part of the introduction, even though it’s mostly (but not completely) tongue in cheek. I’m definitely going to put it to the test in this post and some future ones I’m thinking of writing.

Some of my “porn I dislike” posts are along the lines of “I’m not a huge fan of this type of porn, but whatever.” For example, I don’t like the gay stuff but if you do I’m not going to try and talk you out of it. I got nothin against gay porn, it just turns me off. There were exceptions, however, when when it came to child porn and incest porn, where I took more of an “I don’t understand how people can like this” stance. I think people who are into these types of porn have mental issues, that it’s not just a matter of a difference of opinion. I may face some logical inconsistencies in the near future on that last point – maybe even in this very post – but that’s the stance I took.

Then, in the post on “the rough stuff,” I started to get into some areas that might have been less comfortable for some people. I’m sure most porn lovers wouldn’t have a problem with the fact that I like porn with hard and fast fucking, but is it really “OK” that I like spanking or hair pulling, or, worse yet, slapping or choking girls, or sex so rough that it makes a girl cry? Lots of people would say it’s fine; lots of others would say it’s not fine at all.

Further to that, I’m getting ready to write about other types of porn I like but which some porn-lovers might disagree with on moral grounds. “You like <genre> of porn? You’re as much a deviant pervert as the child porn lovers or the incest lovers!” I’m fully prepared to have such conversations when the time comes, but I think the basis of those discussions will probably come down to this:

Is there a line between fantasy and deviant perversion? And if there is such a line, where do we draw it? Put another way: if someone enjoys a particular type of porn, does it necessarily mean they actually want to engage in those activities, or are they potentially just turned on by the thought? Can you be turned on by the fantasy, but turned off by the idea of actually doing it for real?

Some obvious examples that come to mind:

• If someone enjoys child porn, does it necessarily mean they would ever enjoy actually abusing children, or seeing/watching the abuse of children, or having children abused on their behalf?
• If someone enjoys incest-related porn, does it necessarily mean they would be tempted to mess around with someone they’re related to in real life?
• If someone enjoys rape porn does it necessarily mean they would ever consider raping someone or enjoy being raped?
• If someone is into vore does it necessarily mean they would ever actually be willing to eat someone or be eaten?

That first point, on child porn, is probably more contentious than the others because children actually have to be abused in order for such porn to exist. That’s not necessarily true of the others, you can watch a video in which two people pretend to be related, or in which a rape is simulated. I have no idea if there are vore videos out there so I don’t know if people ever pretend to eat each other. (I think the vore stuff is mostly in the form of comics or erotic fiction, though I couldn’t say for sure.) But if there is a picture or video of a child having sex it’s hard to simulate that, unless you find a really, really young-looking girl or guy who in reality is of legal age. Otherwise, a child had to be abused in order to make that porn. Maybe, to make the purely intellectual point, we should talk only about erotic fiction or cartoons rather than porn involving the actual acts. Put that purely theoretical way, can you read and be turned on by a story in which a child is abused, but not be turned on or be actively turned off when it happens in real life (or when you see real pictures of it)? Can you be turned on by rape or incest stories, but be turned off by actual rape or incest?

Or, on the other hand, is it always a slippery slope? If you enjoy incest-related fantasy, does it necessarily mean that you’re just however many steps away from actually messing with a blood relation? If you enjoy child porn, or rape porn, does it mean that you’re just however many steps away from carrying out the acts yourself? Is the fear of getting caught or fear of the consequences the only thing stopping you?

If you’ve been following the news you might have seen mention of this “vore” thing which I’m mentioning. It’s short for “carnivore,” and people who are into vore are into fantasies of eating others or being eaten. Once in awhile on porn sites I’ll come across vore stuff. The usual scenario is that a woman is being eaten, or being swallowed alive by a snake or monster, or she’s even being roasted on a spit, but she’s still alive and she’s loving the whole experience. I remember coming across a cartoon once in college of a woman being roasted on a spit, where she was mostly dead (I think) but there was a thought bubble indicating how much she looked forward to being eaten, and it disturbed me for days after. It still gives me an odd feeling to think about it.

The reason this vore thing is in the news is because of Gilberto Valle, “The Cannibal Cop,” whom the police and/or FBI have accused of conspiring to kidnap some women with the purpose of eating them. Based on the coverage in Slate, however, it doesn’t seem like he had an intention of doing any such thing: he was into vore, but doesn’t seem to have planned to make his fantasies real. It seems that he was convicted purely on the basis that his fantasies are sick (which I agree with), rather than on what he might really have been guilty of doing.

However, it seems that the outcome of the trial was based on the very question I’m asking here: Is it a slippery slope? If he was turned on by the whole vore thing, does that mean that he was only steps away from committing the acts in real life? Maybe large steps, but does it mean he was on that path?That if his fascination grew and grew eventually he’d succumb to actually doing something, or maybe, again, the fear of getting caught was the only thing preventing him? If this is the case, if being into a particular fetish necessarily means that you’re also into the thing itself – follow the nuance here – then yes, putting him in jail may very well have prevented him from doing something horrible. If this is not the case, if you can be into a particular fantasy without ever wanting to commit the act yourself, then it seems (from the outside looking in) that a miscarriage of justice might have been carried out.

To bring this back to the posts I’ve written before, is it possible to be into incest-related porn, to be turned on by the fantasy of incest, but not be turned on by actual incest? The assumption is always made that if a guy is into porn about guys fucking their sisters it probably means that he himself wants to fuck his sister; if he likes porn where a mother and a son fuck he probably wants to fuck his mother. Is that necessarily so? Or is it possible to be turned on by brother/sister or mother/son fantasies but repulsed (as anyone else would be) by the thought of fucking your actual relative? This is an honest question, though, personally, regardless what the answer is I still find the whole concept of incest to be pretty gross, whether in porn or in real life.

Similarly, is it possible to be into child porn, to be turned on by the fantasy of it, but be turned off by the actual abuse of children? And if it is, how does the viewing of pictures or videos factor into it? Erotic fiction or comics are one thing (though still terrible, I continue to point out), but when it comes to photos or movies, in order to produce that photo or that video a child had to be molested. Don’t even try to start with arguments about the children enjoying it, or it not being so bad, or (worse yet) that they were “asking for it.” The simple fact is that those children had to be molested in order to produce that picture or that video.

This, of course, is completely aside from the fact that the type of incarceration men face for viewing child porn might not be in line with the actual danger they pose to society. That’s neither here nor there.

A potentially difficult sociological problem to tackle, but I’m a blogger so of course I think I have an answer, based on my own experiences: there are types of porn I enjoy but which I would never want to carry out in real life. There are examples I can think of where I enjoy the erotic fiction or comics on the topic, but seeing pictures of the real thing is at the least not a turnon and at the most gross.

Even outside of my experience, going back to the vore thing, there seems to be somewhat of a vore community out there, but I haven’t heard of waves of people being eaten. Aside from Jeffrey Dahmer, can you think of person who actually carried out the acts that the vore crowd fantasize about? There was maybe one other case I can think of, but not many – definitely not thousands or hundreds, or even dozens. (If there had been, they definitely would have made the news.) Is it because the fantasy is a turn on but the actual act is not? Or is it the fear of getting caught?

As for the types of porn I enjoy, but only in fantasy form, I’ll have to leave you in suspense for future posts to find out what those types of porn are. There are only a couple, don’t walk away thinking that I’ve got scads of perversions to write about, but they’ll be difficult posts to write and articulate properly so I’ll need to take my time with them. In the meantime I’ll probably put up a post where I talk about enjoying pictures of girls swapping cum with each other or something, with lots of pictures, to entertain you until I can write the difficult posts...